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Talk:Sam Puckett
Why Sam is a villain Sam does creates some conflict in the show that makes her a criminal and a Villainous Jerk such as abusing/mistreating Freddy to the point that she embarassed him by telling everyone he didn't kiss a girl, used children for labor work which constitutes as slavery, smuggling illegal products, kidnapped a celebrity and leaving Cat to rot in jail just so she could have Nona to herself. Plus we have Squidward Tentacles here and he is the same type of character. Sam is just as bad if not worse than Squidward.--Tearface (talk) 16:16, December 26, 2015 (UTC) :I can see arguments on both sides but within the series she has broken laws with smuggling, child labor, assault on both jerks and friends (namely Freddy) and does cause a few conflicts in the show. With that I think she fits the basic amount required but to be fair she's not evil and I'll let the majority decide. Jester of chaos (talk) 16:59, December 26, 2015 (UTC) ::You realize that "X should be here because Y is here" is not valid enough of an argument? Perhaps Y should not be here either. Especially if X fails the Rules and "they are the same type of character". ::Anyway, being a jerk still fails Rules 6.1-3… She is not established as a villain in iCarly—''she is a protagonist''. She is a jerk, even a bully—but that's not enough. She has bad habits and so is Flawed—''not enough''. She is not Wicked/Evil—''not enough''. She fails the Rules' criteria. ::The child labor episode was a learning lesson for both her and Carly Shay, and not something which was a normal practice. They attempted to present a cheap product but found out they could not, sinking lower and lower in their production practices until eventually the two of them realized it was wrong. Sure it was an uncomfortable situation for us to see, but Rule 6.2 "sum up to 'just because something offends you does not make it evil / immoral' ". ::Sam could have been much much worse had she not met Carly, and that was explored in the episode where one of them (iWish ?) wished things were different and Sam was in jail and had been for some time as she had never met or known Carly per the wish. Carly is her Jiminey Cricket, keeping her "on the side of law" (6.3). ::Sam, among others, do not belong '''according to the rules. --Love Robin (talk) 17:03, December 26, 2015 (UTC) :::KatKennedy135 (talk) 19:29, December 26, 2015 (UTC)KatKennedy135 I am aware she isn't a villain, that's true. But she does have her bad moments of abusing her friends and plotting schemes of revenge ::::Rules 6.1 – Jerk ≠ Villain; 6.2 – Flawed Hero ≠ Villain. Stating "I'm aware she isn't a villain… but…" is like saying to a police officer during a traffic stop for speeding, "I was only going 5 miles over the limit". Which 1) says you know the law/rules, 2) that you were in violation of them, and 3) that you knew you were in violation of them. ::::Really, all anyone is doing is repeating reasoning 'which ''fails the criteria of the Rules. --Love Robin (talk) 12:50, December 27, 2015 (UTC) She must stay here I think you should reconsider her stay in this wiki. According with Tearface, Sam does creates some conflict in the show that makes her a criminal and a Villainous Jerk such as abusing/mistreating Freddy to the point that she embarassed him by telling everyone he didn't kiss a girl, used children for labor work which constitutes as slavery, smuggling illegal products, kidnapped a celebrity and leaving Cat to rot in jail just so she could have Nona to herself. We have to remember that it is possible being both an heroe and a villain. And Sam Packet isn't the first instance and neither will be the last. ::Well, Sam is neither Hero OR Villain in her setting. She is a protagonist. She fails the criteria of inclusion on this wikia according to the Rules. ;6.1 Jerk ≠ Villain :Please be mindful not to add a character to this wiki unless he or she is established as a villain in their setting - although standards vary greatly we do not desire articles concerning minor bullies or rivals unless they show exceptionally cruel and/or immoral traits. Name-calling and just being "nasty" is not enough to make a character valid :::Sam fails this because she is NOT established as a villain in her setting. That doesn't mean *we* establish them as villains—''their setting does''. She certainly does NOT show exceptionally cruel and/or immoral traits beyond being a smart-mouthed streetwise criminal whose parents are mostly absentee and her mother not a very good role model. ;6.2 Flawed Hero ≠ Villain :The number of articles about anti-heroic characters is no longer acceptable - this is a VILLAINS Wiki and we need to keep it that way. Being a simple "jerk" will no longer be valid. A character should have either malicious intent or be actually dangerous to count. From now on "grumpy", "not nice" or "mean" as reasons for a character being here will be ignored and the content erased - start showing us actual deeds that are malicious (and NO, name-calling and minor "bullying" will not count anymore). This is similar to the above rule but will sum up to "just because something offends you does not make it evil / immoral" - from now on PROVE to us the character is criminal, immoral or dangerous :::This describes Sam to a "T". She is a Flawed character, a Jerk, Grumpy, Not Nice, Mean, and a Bully. None of which this rule says is valid to be here. ;6.3 Antagonist ≠ Villain :Most people tend to confuse these two terms. By definition, antagonist is a character who opposes the protagonist/protagonists, while villain is a wicked character who does evil. While they may overlap, they are completely different things. That being said, do not add pages for antagonists who aren't shown as being evil/wicked, especially if they are good characters or on the side of law. :::This should be self-explanatory… for all her flaws, as a teenager learning slice-of-life lessons, she is NOT "evil/wicked", and she is still on the "side of law", something emphasized by the episode where it was wished their lives were different and she in jail because she had never met Carly to have her influence in her life. :::The "child labor" episode was just that… ONE EPISODE. An "Aesop" Learning Lesson episode in which BOTH SHE AND CARLY wound up running a child sweatshop because they tried to produce their product-of-the-week cheaper than some other source BEFORE THEY REALIZED WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS WRONG. Now, if that ONE TIME is what it takes to be a "villain"—''then so is CARLY. :::In fact, what ''would you call someone who is a villain's best friend, supporter, enabler, and leash holder (Sam: Can I kick their butt now? Carly: Yeah… sic'm.)? They are not friends who grew apart to end up on opposite sides of something, they are constant friends, always together, nearly sisters. ::If you want to highlight Flaws, then let me ask what would you say about someone who: *is not always authorized to get into people's business but does so anyway *consistently on multiple instances endangers the lives of friends by taking them into dangerous situations which include deathtraps **including kidnapping them to do so *treats their best friend as a tagalong "sidekick" instead of a partner **got them a job without permission *slave-drove children into the ground with all day and night sports training *killed opponents *would pause during battle to have friendly chats with the villain *allowed private property placed in their care to be destroyed without remorse *used mind control devices without second thought even though stating it as "ferociously unethical"… on children and friends alike ::Or another who: *let money go to their head so much as to exclude their best friend from their lunch time *dropped being their best friend's campaign manager to switch to their opponents' side *got in the way of their hero friend by tripping them up so much as to prevent them from wrapping up the objective right then and there. Including getting them knocked out so their life was in actual danger from the Big Bads *lied to everyone include their BF to fool them about their intelligence *left their hero friend's side to chase after college girls *left their hero friend during a pitched battle fighting for their life to strip down and sit in a sauna to kvetch with a bunch of old guys *signed up their best friend for a competition without their permission *let their BF do ALL the work on special school projects—''for years'' *stole their BF's special clothing in order to cheat at sports *when their airline seat in coach breaks, instead of giving their first-class upgrade to their girlfriend, they take it themselves… not ONCE, but TWICE *used mind control technology to mind rape a 7 year old child ::Hmm? Villains? Who are they? Kim Possible and Ron Stoppable, respectively. ::So that's Carly Shay, Kim Possible, and Ron Stoppable who could be considered as villains if all we do is focus on and elevate their flaws. But the Rules say otherwise… --Love Robin (talk) 10:56, December 27, 2015 (UTC)